The Start of a Conversation
19 comments | posted Sep 11
I've been having a ton of conversations about the Church (not the building, but the body) and our generation.
Specifically, what are the strong points we as a generation bring to the Church and where do we contradict each other?
I know what I think, but desire to know what you think.
Start leaving comments and lets have a conversation.
-David
19 comments
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Jeanners says:
I think one of our strengths as a church is the ability to adapt to the current culture - making church a trendy new place to bring your friends. Truly, you have to admit that there's something to be said about people feeling more at home in your church because you have an awesome band (STATUS)... and yet the flip side IS the Christian sub-culture. Too much of a good thing can be bad.
A major weakness I see is that we are unable (or unwilling?) to communicate God's unconditional love through our actions, to those closest to us, as well as those we don't even know. We find difficulty often giving up judgment and allowing God to deal with the person directly in their sins. Our discussions often lead to alienation because we love so conditionally... we don't truly understand the Grace we are freely given and therefore have difficulty relating it to people in our lives.
The important thing is that I think our generation is willing to struggle with tough issues... we must simply be careful to listen carefully to what people say of us and objectively determine if they have a valid point. Getting past denial is the first step to any recovery.
posted Sep 13
Comment replies (8)
Alaina says:
I somewhat disagree with your second point.
If anything I think that this generation is all too quick to embrace man's sinful nature, sometimes taking the whole "come just as you are" mentality a bit far.
Of course, this is partially a consequence of the postmodern/post-structuralist culture blurring so many boundaries in regards to language and meaning. For Christians, this shift can be seen in how our generation sometimes "interprets" the Bible: "sin," context, authorial intent, etc. This can be good in so far as we are no longer simply swallowing what people tell us, but are searching/researching scripture and ideas for ourselves. Yet, the post-structuralist mindset can/has lead many people into excusing away sin.
Bottom line: the Holy Spirit should do the talking.
posted Sep 13
matthew addington | photography says:
I agree with you Alaina. While it has been the motif of generations before us to snub discrepancies in dogma (drinking, smoking, anyone outside of the baptist cookie-cutter), our generation has thus far seen a backlash against this traditionalist mindset. There are smoking receptacles outside of Churches; friends go and grab drinks after a bible study; our language has become loose and a certain level of profanity is acceptable.
All of these things are a result of our generation's desire to meet people where they are (which there is nothing wrong with), but still holds hidden traps for our feet.
Now, as you are reading this you might be thinking, "He is a traditionalist sympathizer." I am far from that, and I lean more towards a liberal view of our faith. What I am saying is that the Church has done its job of meeting people where they are, but a very poor job of holding its own (i.e. Christians) to a standard that is above reproach.
If we began to institute the precepts that Christ was trying to inculcate within His disciples, we would see that His love was free, but demanded obedience in order to reap the full benefits.
And just to clarify, the full benefits are not just our salvation; they are a life of possibility and wonder that are only available when we adhere to the convictions that are placed upon our hearts and serve others with a disinterested love that is selfless at it's core.
posted Sep 13
Josh says:
I think the only people that wouldn't consider us "beyond reproach" for having a drink or using harsh language are other Christians, not the society we live in.
posted Sep 13
Harry says:
"I think the only people that wouldn't consider us "beyond reproach" for having a drink or using harsh language are other Christians, not the society we live in."
I disagree to a point. I believe that it is not only christians that judge us, but also non-christians that judge us. We live our lives as an example of Christ, and while I have no problem with the drinking (as long as it is not to excess), I do believe that harsh language is not a good example of Christ..
Also, isn't it a slippery slope? I mean, accepting harsh language is just one step.
posted Sep 14
Jeanners says:
Your points are well founded on several issues (drinking, smoking, etc); however, what about those which are more controversial? Do you also think we are too accepting of homosexuality? abortion? abuse?
posted Sep 14
matthew addington | photography says:
I think some clarification is in order. I have no qualms with someone having a drink (as I do on occasion) or a smoke. But what I have an issue with is Christians perpetually engaging in activities that are of no benefit.
To answer your question NINJA, I believe our generation has become a little too lax when it comes to such issues. If someone who is not a believer comes to us with any of the aforementioned issues, we should always accept them and love the love that Christ has. That is not the problem.
The problem is there is too much tolerance for those who are already Christians. We hold those who are of no faith to the same standards of those who have faith. How does that make sense?
We are to hold accountable our brothers and sisters so their example of a life of purity sets the pace for those who are looking at them as a reflection of Christ.
posted Sep 14
David Miller says:
wow! many good points. I'll touch on a few.
I believe the Church is judging and the World is watching.
The stigma is that Christians don't drink, smoke or swear and thats just false.
people are people...Christians are just people striving for a life of purpose.
If we are to really get into this we need to realize that most of the Christian liberties we debate about are simply cultural. If we were to transplant an American church into a European culture, they would think we're strange not to drink or swear.
This is not me saying to make these choices, but to put it into perspective.
if a christian is in a country were it's immoral for a woman to show calf than we are not to offend.
I am of the mindset that you will never regret not doing something that is considdered a grey area. Just a thought.
posted Sep 14
Alaina says:
It seems as though this generation is trying to eliminate the all-too-popular christian subculture . . . i.e. making "Christian" a noun instead of an adjective, being a good artist instead of a Christian artist, etc. Hallelujah.
I also think that we are exploring doubt and investigating questions, both of which I think the previous generation viewed as threatening or risky. More importantly, we are talking and discussing these doubts with others, in a COMMUNITY, in the body of Christ. I believe the more that we recognize this community and embrace its diversity, the more prepared we will be to truly become Christ's hands and feet to love others . . . that we may become "all things to all people."
I think that one weakness is our tendency to go to extremes in reaction to a lot of the ideas of the previous generation. We sometimes "throw the baby out with the bathwater" instead of evaluating individual issues with an open but critical mind.
posted Sep 12
Comment replies (1)
David Miller says:
Very well said Alaina.
The Christian sub culture has done nothing but make the Church a joke.
I also agree that we continue to make church that looks nothing like church because we are afraid of being associated with the negative connotations, but in the process we are losing some amazing and Biblical practices.
posted Sep 12
elle says:
around my neck of the woods, my generation of the church is more into evangelism around the community than the generation before us, who were a little more focused on strengthening the believers. both are good things, but that's the way God is working in my generation right now.
posted Sep 12
Comment replies (3)
David Miller says:
I agree with that. It does seem that our generation is more about going out to the community rather than inviting them to us.
Why is that?
posted Sep 12
Harry says:
In my opinion it is because the church has such a bad reputation, in-fighting between dinominations, and the general reputation that has been built up over the last few generations.
In England at least, the public see the Church as stagnant and old. They see the church as Church of England, with images like thishttp://www.parishes.oxford.anglican.org/oxford-stmargaret/altar2.jpg in their minds, and they just dont see how they can relate to it. In fact, I don't see how I can relate to that!
posted Sep 14
painternz says:
I think our generation is now addressing a divide that has existed in theology for the last few generations before us.
This split between the conservative base that looks after the believer's and becomes like a fortress against modern culture and outside community, and then the flip side, which in very general terms, meant that when this split occurred early last century, people labelled any sort of community work or social justice as being attached to more liberal theology.
There are merits on both sides of the coin, I think the challenge we face now is how do we embrace the heart of God in the midst of all of this, how do we have effective and lasting change? Social entrepreneurship, community work etc.. has to be motivated by something in us that is more than just doing good deeds. We want to take it to the next level of really living Christ in the midst of our communities and cities..walking our talk..
my friend patrick has some great thoughts on this topic too.. www.patrickdodson.net
posted Sep 15
Johnny says:
I was having a conversation the other day about the connection between our generation and older generations. In that conversation it was said that we need the older generation just as much as they need us. Without one, the other will surely fall. We need their guidance. I feel sometimes we forget about them and think their ideas and views are out-dated, but are they really? I am beginning to appreciate what my grandparents views are and as I do that, they can actually appreciate my views. It seems there is a large gap growing between the generations and it has taken me till this week to notice.
posted Sep 14
Comment replies (3)
matthew addington | photography says:
You are absolutely right Johnny. I just sat down with David Miller and another friend over dinner and had this precise conversation. The intergenerational gaps in the Church body are unhealthy and strangle the growth of discipleship and mentoring.
While I do see the need for services and ministries geared towards certain demographics, they should not be exclusive. If there is an 80-year-old man that would love to come and have communion with me at my 20 something-hipster communal church, then by God let him come. And let the youngsters throw their arms around him and over him as they would someone their own age.
You hit the nail on the head my friend.
posted Sep 14
Jeanners says:
I saw this at Muse the last time. Not only an older, wiser man, but also a homeless one. It was beyond intriguing.
posted Sep 14
painternz says:
Such a good point! I've been thinking for a while now how the Body of Christ is like family - we need the older generations to help us younger ones know our place, not in a controlling sense but as a way for us younger people to be secure and safe. We need encouragement and wisdom from generations that have walked a bit further along in the journey, so often we get caught up trail-blazing and forget to stop and ask someone older about their experiences.
posted Sep 15